Curse

X Dr Pepper X · Aug 18, 2010, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Power creep...

GW1 has gone to hell not because Anet can't balance the game... but because they refuse to balance the game.

GW1 is still salvageable. GW2 isn't necessary, but interesting nonetheless.

UnChosen · Aug 18, 2010, 03:09 AM // 03:09

It isn't so much that RoJ is overpowered...its Elementalists that are UNDERpowered. RoJ is what the Ele's spells should be like (at least for the expensive spells and the elite spells) but isn't thanks to the stupid armor in HM.

And speaking of ER Infuse...Monk also needs better energy management in PvE, just not to the insane level of ER. Pretty much the only standard heal build that is still used is the WoH hybrid builds, with HB/UA only used in high end areas to support invinci tanks and to EZ rez people >.>

belshazaarswrath · Aug 18, 2010, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Power creep...

GW1 has gone to hell not because Anet can't balance the game... but because they refuse to balance the game.

GW1 is still salvageable. GW2 isn't necessary, but interesting nonetheless.

Guild Wars in my opinion hasn't gone to hell...well at least not for any reason related to skill balance. It still has plenty joy for people who haven't over indulged in it already. So nothing really needs to be salvaged...but this is neither here nor there.

When you are talking about power creep as long as they power creep everything evenly I don't see the problem. Buff every class...and if they're all too powerful buff the damn monsters too. Viola. Balance issue gone.

So yea don't nerf RoJ. Certainly don't buff it either. Leave it as is. It's basically the only well balances smiting elite there is. Change everything else.

Desert Rose · Aug 18, 2010, 07:12 PM // 19:12

RoJ has a tiny radius, it only deals a decent amount of damage if you pull enough foes together, read playing tank'n'spank; in a tank'n'spank team other options, i.e. Mark of Pain or Searing Flames, are superior. RoJ is good for capping shrines in JQ and maybe AB, but that's about it.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 18, 2010, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

RoJ has a tiny radius, it only deals a decent amount of damage if you pull enough foes together, read playing tank'n'spank; in a tank'n'spank team other options, i.e. Mark of Pain or Searing Flames, are superior. RoJ is good for capping shrines in JQ and maybe AB, but that's about it.

It deals decent damage in casual play as well I think. But yea I'd like it if RoJ is left alone in the smiting update. If there's anything they need to NOT change it's that.

Lillium · Aug 19, 2010, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Erm, topic looks a bit off topic in an RoJ argument... But I'll give this a shot!
This is just with PvE in mind, but anything marked for PvE is really really only for PvE.

Kirin's Wrath/Symbol of Wrath
5 energy, 1 sec cast, 30 sec recharge
Spell. For 10 seconds, foes adjacent to the location in which the spell was cast take 8...28...35 holy damage each second.
Basically make this the same as Chaos Storm, with a little extra damage instead of energy drain. Adjust cast time down, since Chaos Storm has added cast for FC.

Retribution
10 energy, 2 second cast, maintained
Enchantment Spell. While you maintain this enchantment, whenever target ally takes attack damage, this spell deals 33% of the damage back to the source (maximum 8...28...33 holy damage).
Guessing a bit with the numbers (yoinked them off stone daggers), but basically increase the max dmg. Hardly worth maintaining if you can wand for more. Also, specify holy.

Holy Strike/Stonesoul Striker PvE
5 energy, 1 second cast, 8 sec recharge
Spell. Touched target foe takes 5...33...40 holy damage. If target foe is attacking, your target is knocked down and takes an additional 5...41...50 holy damage.
Probably overpowered. I've always hated the KD'd foe condition, would rather cause it. Numbers pulled from Overload, before the big mesmer update.

Word of Censure
5 energy, 1 sec cast, 2 sec recharge
Elite Spell. Target foe takes 15...63...75 holy damage. If your target was below 33% Health, Word of Censure takes 15 additional seconds to recharge.
I don't understand the point of extra recharge, but lower it and with options like the above Holy Strike you can just as easily finish a target off with something else.

Smite
5 energy, 1 sec cast, 10 sec recharge
Spell. This spell deals 10...46...55 Holy damage. If attacking, your target takes an additional 10...30...35 Holy damage and this spell recharges 50% faster.

Balthazar's Pendulum PvE
5 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 3 sec cast
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...9...10 seconds, the next time target ally would take damage or life steal, the foe dealing the damage is Knocked Down.
Just like Reversal of Damage or Fortune... with a twist.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 20, 2010, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillium

Erm, topic looks a bit off topic in an RoJ argument... But I'll give this a shot!
This is just with PvE in mind, but anything marked for PvE is really really only for PvE.

Kirin's Wrath/Symbol of Wrath
5 energy, 1 sec cast, 30 sec recharge
Spell. For 10 seconds, foes adjacent to the location in which the spell was cast take 8...28...35 holy damage each second.
Basically make this the same as Chaos Storm, with a little extra damage instead of energy drain. Adjust cast time down, since Chaos Storm has added cast for FC.

Retribution
10 energy, 2 second cast, maintained
Enchantment Spell. While you maintain this enchantment, whenever target ally takes attack damage, this spell deals 33% of the damage back to the source (maximum 8...28...33 holy damage).
Guessing a bit with the numbers (yoinked them off stone daggers), but basically increase the max dmg. Hardly worth maintaining if you can wand for more. Also, specify holy.

Holy Strike/Stonesoul Striker PvE
5 energy, 1 second cast, 8 sec recharge
Spell. Touched target foe takes 5...33...40 holy damage. If target foe is attacking, your target is knocked down and takes an additional 5...41...50 holy damage.
Probably overpowered. I've always hated the KD'd foe condition, would rather cause it. Numbers pulled from Overload, before the big mesmer update.

Word of Censure
5 energy, 1 sec cast, 2 sec recharge
Elite Spell. Target foe takes 15...63...75 holy damage. If your target was below 33% Health, Word of Censure takes 15 additional seconds to recharge.
I don't understand the point of extra recharge, but lower it and with options like the above Holy Strike you can just as easily finish a target off with something else.

Smite
5 energy, 1 sec cast, 10 sec recharge
Spell. This spell deals 10...46...55 Holy damage. If attacking, your target takes an additional 10...30...35 Holy damage and this spell recharges 50% faster.

Balthazar's Pendulum PvE
5 energy, 1/4 sec cast, 3 sec cast
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...9...10 seconds, the next time target ally would take damage or life steal, the foe dealing the damage is Knocked Down.
Just like Reversal of Damage or Fortune... with a twist.

Hmm...I think Balth should deal back some damage too if it's an elite reversal of damage.

Overall good changes. I like.

Age · Aug 20, 2010, 06:16 PM // 18:16

It would be nice to see smiting line get a buff.I would say RoJ is fine I wouldn't mind see faster recharge on SoJ 20 or 30 sec.instead of 45.

Where did you read this?

belshazaarswrath · Aug 20, 2010, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

It would be nice to see smiting line get a buff.I would say RoJ is fine I wouldn't mind see faster recharge on SoJ 20 or 30 sec.instead of 45.

Where did you read this?

Look throughout the Riverside. People are alluding to the smiting update constantly.

Dervish->Paragon->Siting Monk

And as I stated before I think SoJ needs to be completely reworked. It's moderately useful for 55ing and 600ing. That's about it.

reaper with no name · Aug 21, 2010, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

RoJ is the single most powerful skill in the game. I have yet to find a single point and click nuke skill more powerful than RoJ. Do the math. No bullshit.

Stop hugging your monks and claiming they're not overpowered as hell.

RoJ causes at r16 smiting, 48 holy damage. Holy damage is armor ignoring and cannot be mitigated. 8 seconds of burning which causes -7 degen at -2 health per second.

5(48) + 14(8) = 240 + 112 = 352 total damage over 8 seconds.

Lets put that into perspective shall we? Here are a display of single skill nukes damage calculated all over 8 seconds or the duration of the entire nuke. For this purpose our test dummy is a 96 AL NM monster warrior.

Meteor Shower @ 16 Fire Magic: 119 fire damage 3x each 3 seconds over 9 seconds. Total of 357 damage over 9 seconds. Mitigated by target armor to 191.11 damage total.

Savannah Heat @ 16 Fire Magic: 21 fire damage each second over 5 seconds with +21 fire damage each second. 315 total damage over 5 seconds. Mitigated to a mere 168.8 damage by armor.

Ray of Judgment would have done all its armor ignoring damage to the warrior for an astounding 352 damage.

That's almost twice the efficiency of Savannah Heat and easily trumps meteor shower.

The worst part is this is without factoring in prots and extra armor for HM monsters. The ele's damage output would be severely worse.

Why should a monk have damage capability that out does a class where its intended primary effective role in both PvE and PvP is damage dealing?

Riddle me that.

Someone else who uses math to make their point...

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

For the record I don't believe Eles should outheal or out prot a monk. That goes for rangers, sins, and warriors being better with scythes than a dervish as well.

The point is that professions are outdoing eachother at their intended primary functions and its #$#^ing ridiculous.

Just look at Mesme- erm, Elementalist.

You are now my hero.

On topic, I think smiting is exactly what it needs to be: a niche skill line with one or two really good skills in it. It should not be a priority for Anet. After Dervishes and Paragons, Rangers are the ones who need to be looked at. Not smiting.

Age · Aug 23, 2010, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

Look throughout the Riverside. People are alluding to the smiting update constantly.

Dervish->Paragon->Siting Monk

And as I stated before I think SoJ needs to be completely reworked. It's moderately useful for 55ing and 600ing. That's about it.

I haven't seen anything about Monk buffs coming and RoJ is more than usefull then just 55 or 600.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 23, 2010, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I haven't seen anything about Monk buffs coming and RoJ is more than usefull then just 55 or 600.

Then you aren't looking hard enough...

I thought you meant SoJ since RoJ doesn't have a 45 second recharge...

Lanier · Aug 23, 2010, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

I haven't seen anything about Monk buffs coming

back shortly after (or during... i dont remember) the mesmer update, anet said their next focus was going to be on dervs, paras, and smite monks. They didnt specify the order at the time but at a later date, anet said dervs were going to be next in line, and pretty recently (i believe), anet said paras might be next. That leaves smite monks after paras (if anet doesn't change their mind).

Age · Aug 27, 2010, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

Look throughout the Riverside. People are alluding to the smiting update constantly.

Dervish->Paragon->Siting Monk

And as I stated before I think SoJ needs to be completely reworked. It's moderately useful for 55ing and 600ing. That's about it.

You wouldn't mind providing a link to that as I was searching for it.

Thanks

belshazaarswrath · Aug 28, 2010, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You wouldn't mind providing a link to that as I was searching for it.

Thanks

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill...ews:April_2010

There you go.

Age · Aug 28, 2010, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

It isn't so much that RoJ is overpowered...its Elementalists that are UNDERpowered. RoJ is what the Ele's spells should be like (at least for the expensive spells and the elite spells) but isn't thanks to the stupid armor in HM.

And speaking of ER Infuse...Monk also needs better energy management in PvE, just not to the insane level of ER. Pretty much the only standard heal build that is still used is the WoH hybrid builds, with HB/UA only used in high end areas to support invinci tanks and to EZ rez people >.>

Monks have fine energy management if they know to do manage it right.There is more than the Woh hybrid.I find the eles make a good choice for ressers.RoJ is fine and Eles got better skills.

Mashiyu · Aug 28, 2010, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Monks do not have a built-in energy management, the player has to decide whether this heal/prot spell is really necessary to cast. It's part of the monk gameplay after all. ER heal/prot/bonder do nothing but mindlessly spam skills. It doesn't feel like "healing" -it's more like ... dealing negative dmg to your team.

I think some monk spells should encourage their thoughtful use with clauses like:

if target had less than 50% health, ...
if this spell healed for the full amount [no overheal], ...
... you gain X (X less than base cost) energy
... this spell recharges instantly
... heals for additional X points
(WoH and ZB are examples for that, but there should also be non-elite skills)

With more skills like that monks won't run out of energy in longer battles but can keep their elegant playstyle.

Hm... waaaay to offtopic - should I start a thread for that suggestion?

Wrath of m0o · Aug 31, 2010, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Monks dont have skills that will give them 18 in Smiting..case closed.

Mashiyu · Aug 31, 2010, 10:52 PM // 22:52

RoJ @ 16 > any fire AoE @ 18 ... case closed

Age · Sep 01, 2010, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mashiyu

Monks do not have a built-in energy management, the player has to decide whether this heal/prot spell is really necessary to cast. It's part of the monk gameplay after all. ER heal/prot/bonder do nothing but mindlessly spam skills. It doesn't feel like "healing" -it's more like ... dealing negative dmg to your team.

I think some monk spells should encourage their thoughtful use with clauses like:

if target had less than 50% health, ...
if this spell healed for the full amount [no overheal], ...
... you gain X (X less than base cost) energy
... this spell recharges instantly
... heals for additional X points
(WoH and ZB are examples for that, but there should also be non-elite skills)

With more skills like that monks won't run out of energy in longer battles but can keep their elegant playstyle.

Hm... waaaay to offtopic - should I start a thread for that suggestion?

It may not be built but neither do Eles and if you look at this
DivineYes it is getting OT.